Rock idol. Guitar god. Pop star. In Western society, music and mythology are not strange bedfellows. During our teenage years, we tend to deify our favorite rock musicians, to tape their posters on our walls as if they’re some sort of religious icon. We go to concerts and stand in awe of these “rock shamans” (think Jim Morrison), who go to emotional places where most of us are too afraid to tread.  In the age of social media, many have transferred their teenage idolization of 80s rock stars into an ardent, middle-aged participation in Facebook fan pages and chat forums like Metal Sludge (although if you’re familiar with that platform, you know it tends more towards desecration of “washed up” musicians than worship).

Where, however, are women in this pantheon of rock deities? To be certain, there are fierce women in the glam rock / heavy metal genre (Joan Jett and Lita Ford are a few with high name recognition), but, for whatever reason (and I have a few ideas, but they are outside the scope of this piece), our culture generally isn’t inclined towards sanctifying them in quite the same way as male rock guitarists or vocalists. Perhaps it’s because while female rock musicians have had to push the boundaries out of necessity, male musicians get their “street cred” by making it their default mode of operation.

Take, for example, the following Greek parable, and tell me you can’t quite easily imagine your favorite ballsy rock star in the leading role: We’ve all at least heard of Narcissus before, right? He’s the guy who falls in love in with his own reflection until he dies. The point of the story is that becoming self-absorbed can lead to one’s own destruction. Well there are other important (female) details to this story that often get left out. Narcissus isn’t a god, but as the son of a river god and a nymph, he’s technically a demigod, and as such, inherently possesses some qualities that give him an edge in life amongst the mortals. To start with, he’s easy on the eyes. He’s a hunter, an occupation that some women might take as proof of virility and coordination (this probably also means he owns leather pants). These rather superficial attributes are enough to hook Echo, a mountain nymph who can only utter the tail end of others’ words. This is a pretty big relationship challenge, wouldn’t you say? It means that she can only tell him she loves him if he says it first. Echo is eventually able to express her love, but unfortunately for her, when he says it, he’s gazing at himself. Thus Echo is quite literally condemned to repeat ad infinitum Narcissus’s self-love. As his “backup singer” (her name is Echo, after all) she’s useful, but her role is tragically redundant because there are many other mountain nymphs who are just jonesin’ for the opportunity to be in Golden Boy’s orbit).

Narcissus’s pride and disdain for those who worship him the most are, intriguingly (and perhaps even comically) part of his allure. Except for Nemesis, that is. Nemesis is a goddess who’s woke af and doesn’t have any patience for his “bad boy” shtick. She’s taken it upon herself to enact revenge against those who succumb to their own arrogance. “Who does this Narcissus guy think he is?” Nemesis asks. “It’s not like he’s even a true god. He’s only a demigod. He’s just being downright disrespectful to the real deities. I’ll show him what it’s like to be fooled by a beautiful façade.” And so, Nemesis attracts Narcissus to the pool where he falls hopelessly in love with the wavy blonde locks and symmetrical face he sees in front of him. Of course he doesn’t realize it’s just an image, but that’s his tragic fate: to be addicted to his false self to the detriment of his real self (the one that’s flawed and human, and like, needs calories and stuff to survive).

Ex-Wives of Rock, a reality series that featured Athena Bass, Bobbie Brown, Shares Neil, and Susan Blue Ashley, is like a women-centered “take two”  of the Narcissus myth. Although as the wives and girlfriends of 80s rock stars, these women never occupied the sycophantic “fan girl” territory of a figure like Echo, there is no question that they now are their own unique versions of Nemesis. As the partners of 80s “rock gods” like Vince Neil and Tommy Lee, they got to routinely hang out in the VIP areas of the Sunset Strip (Mt. Olympus), and by sharing their daily lives with these rock deities and being the (primary) objects of their affection, they became demi-goddesses themselves. Alas, they also learned that their partners, as pseudo-religious rock idols, considered themselves to live according to a different set of rules. “I’m a god! I don’t live in the mortal world of cause and effect!”  one exclaimed, as his girlfriend heard giggling groupies on the other end of a phone call. Another of these rock gods exclaimed, “I don’t need rehab! Rehab’s for losers!” as his partner saw a mysterious woman on the other end of an intergalactic Skype video conversation.

When a rock god, who once shined his heavenly light upon you, becomes a full-blown Narcissus, there are two options: 1) As an Echo, you can find another rock god to, well, echo.  But that means you also must live with the knowledge that your relationship will always be asymmetrical (you’re a mortal, or at best, a demi-goddess; he’s a god who’s been ordained as such by his fan base – ahem – congregation). Or 2) you toss yourself out of Mt. Olympus (or the VIP lounge of the Rainbow Room…Whatever!) down to the mortal realm because you realize that your relationship with “Rock God” was much too labor intensive, and all that time you were putting into propping him up can now be invested into deifying yourself. In other words, you can turn yourself into a goddess ( Hello Nemesis!).

They’ve had some ups and downs, but in 2017, Athena Bass and Bobbie Brown are both living Option 2. I chatted with both of them (on separate occasions) in L.A.  last month: with Bobbie in her convertible outside a Coffee Bean and Tea Leaf, and with Athena and her daughter Tobi in a surreal diner that had such hilariously slow service that I thought I had been transported into Twin Peaks. Read on for my interview with Bobbie, and please click here for my interview with Athena.

Intellectual Groupie (IG): Hi Bobbie!

Bobbie Brown (BB): Hi!

IG: What is the current status of the show?

BB: There’s no current status [laughing]. We’re done, and I don’t foresee it happening again. The people that put it together kind of went separate ways, and so, I think we’re done.

IG: It sounded like you guys wanted to continue it though, and there was a lot of fan support.

BB: Yeah, we really wanted to. What happened is that the network we were on kind of reformatted, and we didn’t fit their format anymore, so that’s unfortunate, and they didn’t pick us up for a fourth season. And the USA network never – they were Canadian, so they kind of followed suit, and that was a bummer.

IG: Why do you think your show is so relatable to viewers from a wide range of demographics?

BB: I think because we are genuine – it was an unscripted show, and everything you saw was real. I feel like when you watch the show, you can tell if a relationship is forced, or if it’s fake. Or, I think that I can. And because we had genuine camaraderie, and we really genuinely are friends outside of the show, and have been for twenty years, I feel like people could feel the sincerity, whether we were mad or happy or whatever. I felt like they got it and they felt that it was real. And that’s how they could relate. Plus, we weren’t walking around sipping drinks in fuzzy slippers and (being) rich. We were relatable. We talked about real life shit. You know? We’re normal, just like everybody else. We’re broke, we break up, we’re screwed over. People need to be able to relate to that. And I can’t relate to the chicks in Beverly Hills, on The Real Housewives. You know? I’ve never been to that level.

IG: Yeah. My mom and I would sometimes watch the show during dinner, and one of the things my mom said – and she doesn’t know anything about rock music, she’s not a music person – is, “All of these women have really important stories that they are telling.” Just like you said, everybody goes though these things. So in that way, it’s almost sort of de-exoticizing the whole “rock wife” thing.

BB: Exactly.

 IG: The infidelity of rock stars is just one of the common threads uniting you, Athena, Shares  and Blue. Reflecting back on it now, why do you think that was prevalent in the culture of 80s rock?

BB: I don’t even think it’s just 80s rock. I just think it’s rock stars or musicians in general because they’re always touring and they always have a plethora of women who don’t give a shit if they’re married or not, who are willing to throw themselves at them. And honestly, if I was in a rock star’s shoes, I might do the same. Who knows? I mean my morals are pretty high, but still! Girls are throwing themselves at them, and they don’t have any regard for anything or anyone else, and so they feel like, “My wife’s not here….” They feel like they can do whatever they want, and they don’t have to be accountable if they don’t get caught. And I feel like it’s on the women. It’s on the women. It’s not that easy for guys to get laid, and it’s really up to us whether or not they do. So you know, be a girls’ girl. Stop being a whore, and that shit shouldn’t happen.

IG: So it seems like what you’re saying is that when it comes to getting together with guys, women actually hold more of the power.

BB: 100 percent. I don’t care who you are, I won’t sleep with you unless I want to. And you can’t have that unless you’re raping me, basically. Right? So I feel like women owe it to other women to have some standards.

IG: What do you think it is about rock stars that makes some women blow roadies to get back stage? Like what is it that is driving people?

BB: It’s sex appeal. It doesn’t necessarily have to be musicians, but when a person is overconfident and exuding that, it’s a very sexy quality, and I feel like women are attracted to that. And rock stars are already over the top. They have that rebellious attitude anyway. So I just feel like everybody’s trying to – everybody’s attracted to being a rebel deep down. Or outwardly! Regardless, to see someone do it so blatantly and with no regard is kind of attractive. That’s what I think anyway. It’s like, “They just don’t give a shit!” And because everyone’s always following rules, that is a sexy quality. I could be wrong though. That’s just my opinion.

IG: Do you think that when women are attracted to that quality, then by extension, they are rebelling against standards (of femininity) too?

BB: To a degree.

IG: What comes through on the show is that all of you were married or involved in some way with rock musicians, and you all seemed to think that you were in monogamous relationships. So was there a mismatch of expectations about what the relationships were going to be?

BB: Well, when I got with my ex-husband, obviously what they tell you is one thing. And they tell you, “Oh, we’re getting married. I love you. I’m going to be committed to you.” Whatever. I mean, you always think you’re the one that’s going to change them. And you never are. And you want to believe that they’ll be faithful to you. Whether they’re musicians or a regular guy, when someone’s devoting themselves or making a commitment to you, you want to believe it! Regardless. I guess that’s being naïve, and I guess it’s a “live and learn” situation.

IG: Yeah, so in a sense it sounds like subconsciously, it’s a form of self-deception.

BB: Yeah, maybe! I actually believed it because I was that confident in myself. But the reality is that you have to remember that it has nothing to do with you. And that’s the lesson learned after the fact. When they cheat on you, it has nothing to do with you. You can be the best or the worst, you can the most beautiful or not. It does not matter. It’s them. It’s their issue, their problem. And that’s easier said than done, to not take it personally, because it is a very personal thing. But at the end of the day, it’s not about you.

IG: So this covers some of the same ground, but it is just a bit more specific. In a TV interview from a few years ago, you suggested that rock star wives either believe their husbands are/will be faithful, or they “turn a blind eye” to the infidelity. Do you think some rock stars are simply upfront with their wives that they don’t intend to be monogamous? 

 

 

BB: About cheating?

IG: Or that it’s an open marriage.

BB: I do.

IG: So they’re just doing it in exchange for the perks of the lifestyle?

BB: Yeah, I mean, “ish”? Probably. I know a couple (of women]) who actually know, and basically they’re like, “I need a new Louis Vuitton to get over that (infidelity).” And personally, I’m not about labels, and those things don’t make me happy. They’re nice, but I can’t be like Kobe Bryant’s wife and be like, “Oh, he bought me a 600 thousand dollar ring so I’m going to forgive him.” [gagging] I wish I could! But I can’t.

IG: I’m wondering how much of it might be the cultural context you’re in. There was this woman who wrote a book a few years back about living in a very wealthy area of Manahattan, like Fifth Avenue. She had lived in the Village, but she had to move because of her husband having a job transfer. And she was like, “Who are these women? I don’t get this at all. Why do they care about having the latest Birkin bag?” But the longer she was there, she got sucked into it. All of a sudden she was like, “Well, maybe I need one…” So maybe it’s also this cultural thing. We want to fit in.

BB: Well, not only that. There’s the stigma. The money thing is important, and the lifestyle. We had to give up this lifestyle. And it was a great lifestyle. The best of everything. However, I can’t pretend like shit didn’t hurt my feelings. Some people can though, and I think they don’t want to give (the lifestyle) up, so they’re willing to turn a blind eye. I personally am not that great of an actress.

IG: It isn’t that unusual to hear about “the musician’s ego”. Do you think that certain personalities tend to be drawn to the music business, or is it the environment that dictates the “diva” behavior?

BB: Both. I feel like there is a type that is certainly drawn (to it), and this type can be explained in my opinion as being over-confident on the exterior, whether it’s a façade or they’ve taught themselves to believe the lie. Most of these musicians are really, deep down – if they’re honest with you – more insecure than you would ever imagine, which is completely different than what you see on stage. This is why I think they have so many issues, and anyone that demands or needs that much attention from so many people on a daily basis all day long is going to be hard to please. Okay? And I think that that void that they have is never ever going to be fulfilled, even though they think that it will, so it’s like constant. So for them to have to be able to stay on top and get that all the time, it’s like very rare because as soon as their stuff isn’t “in” anymore or it doesn’t succeed – oh my god! Dealing with that – like I did with Jani – it’s like a trust issue. The things they go through, it’s like a roller coaster of shit. It’s hard to deal with. [Pause] Did I go off subject? I probably did. I tend to do that. But yeah, I think it’s both. And then when they’re in it, that feeds it and makes it worse. For sure. Especially if they succeed or do well.

IG: Ok, let’s change subjects a little bit. One of the most unique personalities featured on Ex-Wives of Rock had to have been Carrie Borzillo, a journalist you befriended during her work on an essay about “what it’s like being married to a rock star.” What was at the heart of all the misunderstandings that developed between you?

 

 

BB: She was – I think – trying to crowd-please everyone on a one-on-one basis because that’s how she initially met us. So she would take information, and turn it or change it a bit, into however she wanted to hear it or however she was going to use it to her advantage, and be a kiss-ass to me or to whomever, and then when she met the next person, try to crowd-please that person, and then – well first of all, the girl never shut up. And I think she talked too much, so maybe it wasn’t intentionally her plan to stir up shit, but because of her tendency to ramble, she would fucking blurt out shit that would cause problems! I think that’s what it was. I feel that she was so insecure that she would just ramble and talk too much and talk shit. That was all.

IG: I think sometimes when people are nervous they talk a lot.

BB: Yeah, I get that. I had a friend that was like that too, but sometimes you’ve just got to have some sort of social tact or some sort of a chill factor. I mean, how many opportunities did she have to go, “This isn’t working. Maybe I should just take a breather and listen and be loyal to what she said or loyal to what she said, not twist what she said into something I think it is, but on a negative note.” Everything she would hear, she would change it into something slightly negative instead of positive, and she would add what she assumed we were saying, which wasn’t what we were saying at all.

IG: At one point, she mentions that it is an ethical issue for her to be friends with the subjects of her work. I imagine that in the continuing 80s / glam metal scene, it wouldn’t be uncommon for journalists or people in other sorts of media positions to develop friendships with musicians or other public figures. Do you think this compromises the transparency of work that people are doing? Like, in order to get access to people, they feel like they need to ask “soft questions”?

BB: Yeah, I think they do.

IG: It happens in politics all the time.

BB: All the time.

IG: Bobbie, your 2013 memoir Dirty Rocker Boys has been very well received and widely read. Both on Ex-Wives and through social media, you’ve discussed the idea of a second book and have asked for suggestions on possible topics. Have you come to any decisions?

BB: I did, and my company passed on the idea. My company pretty much picked up my book idea. They really weren’t even 100% interested in picking it up to begin with, but because I had a show, they went with it. Nowadays, getting a book deal is absurdly hard. Like ridiculously hard. And the only way they were interested in doing a second book is if I still had a TV show. Which sucks, you know? I had a million people going, “I love the book!” Blah blah blah. They don’t care.

IG: It’s interesting. I don’t really know a whole lot about the book industry, but you would think given how popular self-publishing has become, they’d be more open because they’d realize that’s a competing market.

BB: They still make so much money no matter what advance they give to anybody to make a book these days, which is super rare when they do. They’ve already made the money. So self-publishing? They’re not threatened by it. No person who’s self-publishing will ever make as much money as a publishing house.

IG: Autobiographies and biographies about 80s musicians and bands and those involved in this music genre have become especially numerous in recent years. What are your thoughts on these books? What would you like to see more of? Less of? Are there any individuals from the Sunset Strip scene whose life stories you’d especially love to see in print?

BB: Uh, no. [laughing] The whole reason I decided to write my book to begin with was because with the few I had read or seen, I was pretty bored. I could tell that it either wasn’t written by the person or they didn’t have much input into their own book. And every comment they made was so self-adulating, so self-important. I felt like they weren’t honest.

IG: So you felt like they were embellishing?

BB: Entirely embellishing, saying whatever they wanted people to think, but not being real. I don’t feel that they were being self-deprecating whatsoever. They were serving themselves in the entire book, and through someone else who was basically writing their books. Does that make sense? It was infuriating. So I went, “You know what? I’m going to write a book, tell the freaking truth, not be self-serving, and tell my side of the story. I’m going to tell the truth about everything, whether I look bad or not.” Or whether (other people) looked bad or not! Because that’s what really happened. I wasn’t doing it to appease anybody, and I didn’t tiptoe around anybody when I told the stories. There might have been some things that I left out, only because it would have been too much to tell, and people would have been like, “Ack! Oh my god!” They would’ve freaked out, and my book company was like, “Yeah, we don’t fucking want to get into lawsuits.” So I feel like I did the job. I told the truth as much as I could.

 IG: Was that scary?

BB: I was freaking out. Are you kidding me? I had no idea what the backlash would be at all, and I was afraid for sure. A lot of people don’t want to read about themselves, especially in intimate situations. You know what I mean? I wouldn’t!

IG: [laughing] Yeah, well this isn’t the same thing, but I’m just thinking about how when I sit down to transcribe this interview, I’m going to have to listen to my voice on tape, which has always made me really uncomfortable.

BB: See? [laughing] Yeah, but that’s no big deal. I had to sit down and record my book, and my voice sounds sort of boring or whatever.

IG: It’s interesting what you’re saying about self-adulation or embellishment because for me, when I was collecting people’s life stories when I was writing a dissertation in grad school, I didn’t always know if they were telling the truth or not, but actually, it didn’t really matter. What was more important was how they were describing themselves, and WHY they were doing that. But with autobiographies, it’s a little different because you’re not doing an analysis of culture and behavior. You’re just supposed to be telling your story. But inherently, we all have our own perspectives on things.

BB: Absolutely.

IG: So there is sort of a contradiction.

BB: Right. That’s why at the end of my book I said, “This is my perspective on the things that happened in my life. Someone else may remember it differently, but this is how I remember it.” I wanted to clarify because I didn’t want people going, “That’s not (true)!” This is my perspective. I just wanted to cover my bases, in a way,

IG: In an interview with Sleaze Roxx, Lorraine Lewis (co-producer of “Ex-Wives” and Femme Fatale vocalist) mentioned several times the significant nostalgia she was feeling when Guns N’ Roses played at the Troubadour at the beginning of their reunion tour. She also says that nostalgia was behind the re-launching of Femme Fatale. Do you think it is simply nostalgia that drives the continuance of “retro” music events like Farm Rock Nashville, Cathouse Live, and Monsters of Rock cruises, or do you think there are other motivators besides sentimentality?

BB: Yes. Totally.

IG: So for people who are younger who didn’t experience that music to begin with, do you think it’s their parents getting them into it, or do you think they believe that the things that came before them are better?

BB: Yeah. There are so many kids in my daughter’s generation who are like, “80s rock and glam rock are so awesome!” And I’m like, “What? How do you even know (about it)?” It’s just like how people in my generation were like, “Ziggy Stardust is awesome!” Everyone thinks it’s so cool to experience stuff that isn’t current. It’s a cool thing not to like the popular thing. 

IG: Given that you both were involved in the 80s Sunset Strip scene, is it odd when you hear that people in academia are now doing research about this?

BB: Yeah. It’s bizarre. It’s cool! But it’s different.

IG: How do you think social media has impacted the experiences of fans of certain music groups? And how has it affected artists?

BB: God…

IG: That’s sort of a big question actually!

BB: I’ll do my best on that. Let’s see. I feel like it’s enabled people to personally feel like they have a relationship with them in a way, and get some personal feedback. It makes it more intimate, especially if you’ve never seen them because it used to just be that if you were able to get tickets to go see them in concert, and you think they looked your way, that’s one thing. Now you can communicate with them, they respond, and some people are famous just from social media period. And I think it’s because of the intimacy they feel like they are having and sometimes are having. And that makes it special. Like, “Oh my god. They’re famous and they just re-tweeted my tweet.” And that makes it a personal thing. It makes you feel special or good or like you’re important or that you’ve been acknowledged. For someone famous to acknowledge your average person and their life is a big fucking deal. Right? I think that’s how (social media) has made a difference.

IG: When you first moved to L.A. and you were modeling, you had some interactions with celebrities. Like I think I remember you mentioning OJ Simpson in your book. Did you have the same kind of feeling?

BB: No. I wasn’t a kid who had posters on my wall or, you know, fantasized about the Teen Beat guy. I never did that, except for Mötley Crüe. But when I did meet them, I wasn’t like, “OH MY GOD!” because I’ve never been a fan of anyone. I think there’s a difference between being a fan of someone and realizing that everyone’s another person. It might be like, “Cool! That guy’s so famous and he just talked to (me)”, but I’ve never been fanatical about anyone or anything.

IG: Yeah, I think some people are just wired that way.

BB: Right. So when they talked to me, I’d be like, “Meh.” Put it this way: I was never impressed, and if anything, I would become unimpressed. Because they were something, and then they would say or do something, and I’d be like, “Wow. That was a bummer.”

IG: I totally get it. I’ve experienced the same thing.

BB: So I’ve never been impressed just because they do something as their job. I always had to meet the person to make a judgment call on what I thought about them. And usually most times I would become disappointed.

IG: Athena and you are participants on Facebook and other forms of social media. What has been the most surprising to you about your interactions with fans?

BB: The haters. I’ve literally had people personally or publically reach out to me and be so repulsive and degrading and insulting and every other thing that (goes into being) a horrible person. People who’ve never met me judge me in such a way. To me it’s like, “If you don’t like our show, change the channel. We’re not for everybody, obviously. We’re not going to make everybody happy all the time. I don’t even care if you don’t like me, but don’t seek me out and friend me just (in order to) hate my guts. I feel like, “Somehow I’ve impressed something upon you in order for you to be this passionate about reaching out to me just to hate on me.” I don’t know what it is, but I would never do that. It’s weird to me. That’s the part about social media that freaks me out – that people can not just be so hateful, but also that they can also spend so much time on being hateful.

IG: I think a lot of people say it’s the anonymity of being online. Of course, I guess they aren’t really being anonymous if they’re reaching out to you on Facebook…

BB: Well, you never know if that’s their real profile or not, so it is kind of is. In my life, no one has ever walked up to my face and been like, “I think you’re a disgusting pig. Fuck you.” No one’s ever done that, so it is the anonymity.

IG: You narrated a VH-1 special called “Women of the Sunset Strip.” Part of this show highlighted the misogynistic lyrics and sexualized imagery of women within 80s rock. Do you think that the emphasis commonly placed on these topics in media coverage is over-exaggerated?

 

 

BB: No, I do not. Unfortunately, no! Now it’s not nearly as bad as it used to be. [long pause] I’m still shocked when I hear stories about women, even to this day. I’ve worked a lot with Steel Panther, and their whole thing is to mock that time and that era to a 100% degree. I’ll ask them behind the scenes, “So do you guys have groupies?” And the stories I hear! I’m still shocked over the fact that they do because they’re a “mock” band. It’s weird that they have groupies like that!

 

 

IG: That is really weird. It’s like there’s a whole other level going on.

BB: It really, really is, and I think that social media has helped (in developing) that level because we have girls these days sexting and nobody has any – you know, it’s not about meeting somebody, and falling for them, and becoming intimate with them, and eventually you get to see their body and they get to see yours, like it’s a special thing. Now this is what girls do. They show their body parts all day long. This is how they feel good about themselves, how many guys “heart” (a photo of) their ass. That freaks me out a little bit. It’s a bummer. Social media has taken a turn for the worse. Sexting is taking the place of intimacy and real connection, and girls’ morals are non-existent. It’s nothing for them to finger themselves on video. It’s just weird to me. I’ll never understand it. I’ve told my daughter, “You don’t have to take nude photos.” My daughter is still with the same boy she slept with seven years ago. I’m impressed. I feel like I must have done something good. The day that she had sex, she told me, which is crazy. And she was 19, which is a big deal. I had sex way too early. I feel like communication with your kids is important, even if they don’t want to hear it and are grossed out by it, which is what my daughters’ experience was with me. [laughing] But still, I’m proud of her. So many kids are just straight whores and sluts, and have no direction. It’s nothing for them to give their body away for free or across the internet or otherwise.

IG: My mom was in college during the whole “peace and love” generation, and she told me some of the things she did, and she’s said to me a few times, “I’m so glad you didn’t do the same things I did!”

BB: Yeah!

IG: And I think some of it is just that we’re different personalities, but some of it was also me being a little freaked out when she told me some of these stories.

BB: You were like, “What?!?”

IG: [laughing] But 80s rock with sexist lyrics and music video imagery still must offer some sort of satisfaction to the women who listen to it. Are there any songs that you enjoy that you think fall under such a heading, and how would you describe your listening experience of such music?

BB: Hmm. Let me think about that. I don’t know. You’d have to give me a few examples. I know what you’re saying, but I can’t think of any songs offhand, so maybe not?

IG: Okay, for example, Guns N’ Roses. There’s a song called “It’s So Easy”, and there’s a lyric that goes, “Turn around bitch, I’ve got a use for you.”

 

 

BB: Okay, yeah. Those sorts of things have never been my go-to fave. You know, maybe if I thought about it, down the road I could go, “Oh. That’s what it really means.” But if I know that’s what it means before I fall in love with it and knew the lyrics, then maybe not. I don’t know, I’m just so, “Eww. That’s rude!”

IG: I think with me, if I like the way the music sounds, I kind of look around it or I’m not focusing on it.

BB: Yeah, me too. However, you know what? I love Justin Timberlake, and there’s a bunch of songs where he’s being sexually overt, and I love them. So yeah, I guess it depends. I have to love the song, and then if they say something, I don’t care probably.

IG: Right. And my idea is, maybe sometimes we listen to a song for different reasons. Like maybe one day we’re pissed off and we want to listen to it, and another….

BB: Yeah, absolutely. If a song is a hit, it’s based on emotions mostly. How many times, like when you’re going through a break-up, there’s a certain song and you’re like, “Oh my god, it totally speaks to me.” You know, if someone can relate to it, dance to it, or you can’t get it out of your head, that makes a hit. That’s what I’ve always said.

IG: Finally, this question is for Athena but you can make it into your own version. I was going to ask her about how she said in a 2006 interview that “Eventually it won’t be cool for me to play drums in a rock band. Girls can’t be 50 years old, on stage, and rocking out. It’s not attractive.” So what would you say to your former self?

BB: Pffft. I mean, I would have never said that because I disagree with that comment and I think she would too now because 10 years ago she probably never thought that she could still be cool and still rock out. I’m like, whatever, because I think everybody doesn’t realize that age is just a number. Really. I remember when I was in my 20s when I would meet someone who was gorgeous and 32, I’d be like, “Oh my God! You look amazing!” But that’s so rude and crazy to say because I’m like 50, and when people go, “Oh my god!” I’m like, “Thank you” on the one hand, but how we think 50 sounds when we’re in our 20s is ancient. But it’s really not anymore. However, aging sucks – I have to admit that. [sighing] Yeah! But I don’t think she’d agree with that statement anymore, honestly, because she’s still rocking out and she’s a better drummer today than she’s ever been, and she loves it, and I think that’s crazy. I think 10 years ago she probably thought, “I’ll be in a wheelchair by then!” But she’s a dork. She’d never agree with that now. I know that.

IG: Well thank you!

BB: You’re very welcome!